Curse

matter of time · Oct 14, 2010, 08:27 AM // 08:27

pvp ... means killing other pvpers (some NPCs are almost in every kind of PVP) ... this way you earn zaishen fractions points right? so everyone who posses zaishen points earned that way reflecting r3 zaishen rank is justified to obtain pvp zaishen rank right? if not it is simply unfair ... as for proposal of any change ... the rules (laws) should not be introduced with retrospective effect that could adversaly harm pll (well at least majority of pll)...

Morphy · Oct 14, 2010, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

Alright, I'm done here then. I PvP for my title (and no, not only in the Luxon/Kurzick arenas) and yet you tell me to actually PvP for my title, I don't know what you really want from me then, as I have done it all for my Zaishen title. Good luck with whatever you try to achieve with this, even though it makes 0% sense.

I can PvP for Zkeys, sell them and buy Drunkard. Then I've PvPed for a money title. It works both ways. The pattern seems to be that "vague" titles like these are considered PvE titles: see allegiance ranks, for example. PvE = titles you play PvE for and money titles, PvP = titles that force you to PvP.

Missing HB · Oct 14, 2010, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Actually , that's fun because it's an other thread we see all PvE'rs QQing. When people asked to make changes in HA , or to add Hero Battles back , all just came here and said : " who cares " , " that arena is just title farm " ,... and now they are all like " omg omg how am i gonna do my 50/50 then " . This reminds me the little bug that was in underworld for like 2 hours when mobs had 50k health , and there were like 6 threads made...

Anyway , @ Milllennin guy : same problem than for people who farm dead hour Ha compared to those who play it sometimes ; people who did commander 5-6 fairly while some just had to RR to get r9-10 easily .... Usually ,they consider the majority of players without thinking of minority , thus ......

Lanier · Oct 14, 2010, 06:55 PM // 18:55

The biggest probem with eliminating zaishen's status as a PvP title is that then, AB, FA, and JQ would count nothing at all toward obtaining a pvp title. Since these formats are the most PvE player friendly (and the most fun in my opinion), there should be some way to obtain a pvp title through playing them. Since lux/kurz doesn't count (which is kind of stupid in my opinion since i'v spent an assload of time in these areas getting my lux title up), zaishen could. Can it be abused due to its status as "a money title"? sure. However, there are far better ways to handle the situation... like making z-keys untradeable. This would force you to PvP for the zaishen title, and likewise, would force PvPers to PvE for other money titles. Its pretty win/win in my opinion, and FA/AB/JQ would still count toward your HoM for the pvp title.

Morphy · Oct 14, 2010, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

However, there are far better ways to handle the situation... like making z-keys untradeable. This would force you to PvP for the zaishen title, and likewise, would force PvPers to PvE for other money titles. Its pretty win/win in my opinion, and FA/AB/JQ would still count toward your HoM for the pvp title.

Far too late for that. The damage has been done, any change made now should be consistent with similar decisions. Still, it's probably best to not change things at all. Simply not worth the rage.

*lemming* · Oct 14, 2010, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Making a title based on balth faction would work if it weren't for Zaishen Elite.

Sethellington · Oct 14, 2010, 10:25 PM // 22:25

While in principle I agree, I wouldn't like to see it as PvE only. I'm R4 Hero, R2 Glad and was on my way to raising my Commander before it was removed. So even though I have PvP experience, the dead player base means I'll never raise these titles far enough any more, but it's unfair to lose 3 points for that reason. Zrank is the only title I have a hope of getting high enough to get into HoM. Perhaps my case is somewhat rare since I'm sure you're referring more to the R0 G0 that spend the 1000k on the title, but it's impossible to draw the line.

Lanier · Oct 14, 2010, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Making a title based on balth faction would work if it weren't for Zaishen Elite.

I don't do Zelite so i may be incorrect here but I was under the assumption that the amount of balthazar faction obtainable from it was limited per day, similar to the Zchallenge.

*lemming* · Oct 14, 2010, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sethellington

While in principle I agree, I wouldn't like to see it as PvE only. I'm R4 Hero, R2 Glad and was on my way to raising my Commander before it was removed. So even though I have PvP experience, the dead player base means I'll never raise these titles far enough any more, but it's unfair to lose 3 points for that reason. Zrank is the only title I have a hope of getting high enough to get into HoM. Perhaps my case is somewhat rare since I'm sure you're referring more to the R0 G0 that spend the 1000k on the title, but it's impossible to draw the line.

Bringing the word unfair into this doesn't make sense. How is it unfair to not get credit for something you didn't finish?

With that being said, what would the opinion be on the glad monument requirement being r2? 200 points takes some time, but it's entirely reasonable for anyone who's not completely awful to finish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

I don't do Zelite so i may be incorrect here but I was under the assumption that the amount of balthazar faction obtainable from it was limited per day, similar to the Zchallenge.

6000 a day for a year is 2.2 million faction.

Grav · Oct 14, 2010, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

If you can earn the title through PvE play, it is a PvE title.
If the only way to earn the title is by stepping foot into an arena, it is a PvP title.
If you have the option of earning a title through either PvE or PvP means, it can be earned without playing PvP, and is therefore a PvE title.

Strictly speaking, only the 2nd point is always true. In the case of the other two, the exact opposite argument could also be made on Kurzick/Luxon titles, for example:

If you can earn the title through PvP play, it is a PvP title.
If you have the option of earning a title through either PvE or PvP means, it can be earned without playing PvE, and is therefore a PvP title.

See what I mean?

Gennadios · Oct 15, 2010, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

However, there are far better ways to handle the situation... like making z-keys untradeable.

Oh no it wouldn't. I'd pity the poor souls who would have to earn 200 zkeys strictly through PvP.

The people who know their sh** are probably well on the way to getting that title, forcing them to earn 25 or so keys through PvP wouldn't be a problem. It's simply unfair to the current noobs that may decide to do this title sometime in the future.

Lanier · Oct 15, 2010, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gennadios

Oh no it wouldn't. I'd pity the poor souls who would have to earn 200 zkeys strictly through PvP.

The people who know their sh** are probably well on the way to getting that title, forcing them to earn 25 or so keys through PvP wouldn't be a problem. It's simply unfair to the current noobs that may decide to do this title sometime in the future.

balthazar's faction isn't that tough to get. Plus, it is after all a pvp title. If anet is going to institute something stupid in the HoM like forcing a pvp title in order to get a full hall, they might as well do it correctly.

Of course, i really don't care about the z title anyway. I just wish lux/kurz counted. There are plenty of people out there who got a very high/max faction title before the big faction update a couple years back. It is unfair for those of us who did so much PvPing for our title that we can't count that in the HoM in place of glad, hero, etc.

Del · Oct 15, 2010, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

I just wish lux/kurz counted. .

MQSC/DTSC, hardcore pvp?

Lanier · Oct 15, 2010, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

MQSC/DTSC, hardcore pvp?

Really? You don't have to be all sarcastic. Im not an idiot... I know that lux/kurz faction can be gotten in PvE.

I admitted in a previous post that titles like this could be achieved through other methods. That doesn't mean it shouldn't necessarily be a PvP title. There are many people who get all their lux/kurz from PvP. In fact, there are many who had max luz/kurz before the big faction update.

Plus, why should the PvP title have to be obtained through "hard core" PvP? It should be obtainable from the casual FA/JQ/AB formats as well.

On a side note, I also think that the lux/kurz rank required for the HoM statue should be higher than r4. Maybe r9-10.

Del · Oct 15, 2010, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Really? You don't have to be all sarcastic. Im not an idiot... I know that lux/kurz faction can be gotten in PvE.

I admitted in a previous post that titles like this could be achieved through other methods. That doesn't mean it shouldn't necessarily be a PvP title. There are many people who get all their lux/kurz from PvP. In fact, there are many who had max luz/kurz before the big faction update.

Plus, why should the PvP title have to be obtained through "hard core" PvP? It should be obtainable from the casual FA/JQ/AB formats as well.

On a side note, I also think that the lux/kurz rank required for the HoM statue should be higher than r4. Maybe r9-10.

Point is, when the titles are just as easier, and in fact, more practical to pursue via pve, then it's perfect as it is as a pve title.

Also our definitions of hardcore are quite different.

Smarty · Oct 15, 2010, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

With that being said, what would the opinion be on the glad monument requirement being r2? 200 points takes some time, but it's entirely reasonable for anyone who's not completely awful to finish.

I can't stand RA. Loathe the place. I'd rather not have 50/50 than step foot in there ever again.

*lemming* · Oct 15, 2010, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smarty

I can't stand RA. Loathe the place. I'd rather not have 50/50 than step foot in there ever again.

It's the most accessible form of PvP that has its own title track.

Smarty · Oct 15, 2010, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Doesn't make it any more of an enjoyable place to spend my time though. Random partners against random opponents in an untiered 4v4 format is just horrible.

I'd much rather see a new PvP-only title added for AB/JQ/FA. One that isn't linked to PvE skills and doesn't give any PvE benefit, and can only be earned in those places and not via VQing or whatever.

Sethellington · Oct 15, 2010, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Bringing the word unfair into this doesn't make sense. How is it unfair to not get credit for something you didn't finish?

With that being said, what would the opinion be on the glad monument requirement being r2? 200 points takes some time, but it's entirely reasonable for anyone who's not completely awful to finish.

The only reason I use unfair is because this thread is based on people just using the 1000k, or ZM/ZB coins to farm zrank, which doesn't cover me. Also 'unfair' since it's impossible to find a team in HA these days now. With the Balth faction I've earned, I wouldn't be far off the Z3 anyway. As for the R2 suggestion. Fine in my eyes, they lowered the amount of Fame you need for HoM by 65%, I don't see any harm in reducing the Glad points needed by 50%.

*lemming* · Oct 15, 2010, 07:14 PM // 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smarty

Doesn't make it any more of an enjoyable place to spend my time though. Random partners against random opponents in an untiered 4v4 format is just horrible.

I'd much rather see a new PvP-only title added for AB/JQ/FA. One that isn't linked to PvE skills and doesn't give any PvE benefit, and can only be earned in those places and not via VQing or whatever.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...8&postcount=83

Your second point would be nice, but it's too late to do it retroactively.